Interview with Sarahbeth Ramsey

Sarahbeth Ramsey is an entrepreneur and business owner (The More You Grow® Organization) focusing on empowering entrepreneurs, business owners, and leaders to learn and grow through a holistic business model. As a creative, she values innovative problem-solving and believes in focusing on the person first, and business second. In addition to her service-based offerings and online teachings, she also teaches as an Adjunct Instructor at NMC. Her passions are photography and writing, and she serves as a photography ambassador for Michigan State Parks and is a contributing writer for Northern Express.

Sarahbeth Ramsey is an entrepreneur and business owner (The More You Grow® Organization) focusing on empowering entrepreneurs, business owners, and leaders to learn and grow through a holistic business model. As a creative, she values innovative problem-solving and believes in focusing on the person first, and business second. In addition to her service-based offerings and online teachings, she also teaches as an Adjunct Instructor at NMC. Her passions are photography and writing, and she serves as a photography ambassador for Michigan State Parks and is a contributing writer for Northern Express. She shares her creative pursuits at sarahbethramsey.com. In her free time, she enjoys hiking, paddle boarding, painting, reading, traveling, and spending time with her two amazing dogs- Ella and Margaux.

Connect with Sarahbeth

Website: www.moreyougrow.com

Facebook: facebook.com/moreyougroworg

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sarahbethramsey

Instagram: @moreyougroworg

 

00:03 Welcome everyone. This is Aideen with the Resonate Podcast. And I’m here today with Sarahbeth Ramsey, who is a local here from Traverse City, where I’ve been living for the past few years. Welcome Sarahbeth. Thank you. I’m really excited to be here and I appreciate you having me on. Oh, it’s going to be so much fun. You have so much wisdom to convey and offer.

00:27 You do. I think our listeners are going to be really, really interested in this conversation. It is a little bit more geared for people who run their own business than some of my other podcast episodes, but it’s also going to be a really fun conversation about our values and creating the right culture within business and stuff like that. So I encourage all you listeners to keep listening.

00:53 But first, let me read out a little bit about your view and read your bio so that people can hear a little bit about what you do. Okay. Sarahbeth Ramsey is an entrepreneur and business owner with the More You Grow organization. She focuses on empowering entrepreneurs, business owners and leaders to learn and grow through a holistic business model. As a creative, she values innovation, problem solving. Sorry, I should say

01:22 As a creative, she values innovative problem solving and believes in focusing on the person first and business second. In addition to her service-based offerings and online teachings, she also teaches as an adjunct instructor at NMC, which is the local university here in Traverse City. Welcome, Sarah. Yes, thank you so much. So I’m really excited because I know that you’ve worked in marketing for quite a long time in social media and marketing.

01:51 What prompted you to change your business and give it a whole new name and brand and start promoting it in this way? Yes, that’s a great question. So we just launched this week. So it’s been a very exciting week so far. And gosh, so this idea actually, it came to me while I was in social media marketing. And it was one of those things where your intuition kind of tells you that you should do something and you don’t really follow it yet. It just wasn’t.

02:21 the right time for me and it came to me in the form of burnout on social media. So I had been on social media platforms for a really long time and I started feeling not great and it was before people really started talking about the mental health consequences of being on social media. And so I just started talking about it online and the burnout and the exhaustion and then a lot of people resonated with that.

02:50 I wasn’t ready to take it further just yet and I wasn’t sure what that mission was. So, over the past year, I’ve been developing that further in our business model and what I wanted to do with that. As I added branding services in as well as marketing services, I saw a real need for help to grow healthy, sustainable businesses with these small business owners, start-ups, people, mom and pops.

03:18 falls into that category, but also leaders and people that are trying to make a difference. So we saw a lot of burnout just in general for business owners. We saw a lot of people who were working way too many hours and just are exhausted and we thought there’s a better way. There has to be a better way. So we launched The More You Grow. I’m really enjoying sharing this mission and hearing what people think about it.

03:47 I started my business as a singing teacher and I evolved to being a holistic singing teacher. And then I evolved to what I call myself now, which is an intuitive voice coach. So I think evolution is absolutely normal and essential within business because we do not stay static as people. We are always evolving. But if we want a sustainable business, which is a business that is lasting, what are the

04:17 can continue to grow? Yeah, so we have built a holistic business framework that is built on the eight principles of wellness. So the eight principles of wellness have some foundational elements for people to live healthy lives. And we thought, why can’t that work for business too? So we built it. It is eight different things and we dive into each one of them as necessary with our clients foundationally. As a brand strategist,

04:47 companies build their brand foundation and so we just add those healthy sustainable elements in there to help them create a company that’s going to last and not feel like they have to work all of the time and sacrifice their life and there are things that they want to do. Well completely because we do we work to live or live to work? That’s such a good question.

05:11 When you’re talking about, you know, branding, and we talked a little bit about this, about how culture is part of that. Can you talk about how a business owner might need to adjust the culture within a company to help people understand that they don’t need to just, you know, live to work, that there are other ways to do it? Yes. And, you know, what I will say about this too, is it

05:39 it really does start with society. It’s society and then society seeps into your company, right? We can’t change society yet, but for now, the things that we’re looking at are, what are the deadlines that you have for the people in your company? What is the work culture like? There’s so much of this, oh, we’re adding 10 minute walk breaks for our client, for our employees to go outside and take a 10 minute break and that’s going to solve.

06:08 you know, your burnout and your exhaustion. But really what’s happening is you feel like it’s a mandated 10 minute break and then you’re stress walking outside because you’re thinking I could use these 10 minutes more effectively, right? So instead we need to look, that’s a band aid. That’s what we would say is more of a band aid. What we need to look at is the internal company culture, this pressure, these deadlines. How can we change that? How can we make our…

06:33 feel like they are involved but not overworked and how do we set these boundaries for our team members? When with my team for example I tell them unless you need to catch up like you want to catch up after work or on the weekends you can I won’t be available I don’t work nights and weekends and I tell them I’m never going to need you to work nights or weekends and I’m not going to reach out and demand something be done nights and weekends and that’s how we work with our company culture to let them know hey

07:02 we’re going to help you set this boundary. You don’t need to work nights and weekends, but they manage their days so that they get things done like they need to. All of our employees, all of the people that work for me, I shouldn’t say employees, they’re contractors, but the people that work for me, they are working from home. They’re not required to be in an office. And I know that’s a whole discussion that we won’t get into, but for me, that gives them a lifestyle that they can enjoy. So it just depends on what works for your company, but those are some starting points. And that’s what we.

07:31 value. Well, I think that the work you’re doing, if someone was to go through that process, it could probably change a lot about, you know, their structure of the timings, you know, how soon deadlines are set, like how what other things would you notice change in a business when they put the people first and put those values first? Yeah, that’s a great question. And we

07:59 are internally doing a lot of research into this as well. So what we’re doing right now is what I have worked with current clients, previous clients, to see what works for them. So it’s evidence-based based on my experience with people, but we’re also doing actual research into this too. We have a hypothesis, and that is that by doing this, by building more companies like this, we are going to have

08:25 higher quality output from these companies because people aren’t burnt out, they’re more creative and they’re going to be able to work better and produce better output. But then we’re also looking to lower the failure rate of startups and small businesses, which is very, very high right now. And so we think that by structuring businesses is the way we can hopefully solve those two problems and that’s what we are looking to find out.

08:52 I know that you talked a little bit about focusing on the person or the business owner and getting to know them a little bit more and help them find more sustainability or balance. That that’s where you would start when you’re working in a business. How does that work? Yeah. When I’m talking to them, a lot of people, and I noticed this a lot with social media too. They were coming to me and they were saying,

09:19 I need to be on all of the social media channels. And I said, why? And they said, because that’s what I read online. And so there’s all of these messages that we’re always receiving about what it means to be an entrepreneur. Oh, you should get four hours of sleep and oh, it has to be done this way. And it’s just kind of dismantling, I think, some of those ideas or rather just questioning why they think that. And do they really think that or is it just something that they’ve heard before?

09:46 So with the social media, you know, we would tell them, hey, you don’t need to be on every single channel, but you do need to be on the ones where you’re reaching your ideal demographic. So we work with them to, we’ve always worked with simplifying the process and making it easier, work smarter, not harder, is something I repeat all of the time. And I think by, you know, doing these different methods, we customize everything. So I couldn’t tell you, hey, we do this for every single client to make their lives easier. It’s really what they need.

10:15 and we come in with our model and we see what works for them and we see how we can adjust it to make their lives better and make their team feel more fulfilled and create hopefully this better way of life, to be honest. Yeah, and you’ve made big changes in your own life in the last few years to help you get a better life balance, right? Yes, I have. Tell us a little bit about that journey, because I mean, we’re both in Traverse City now, but you didn’t.

10:43 You didn’t grow up here. This was a conscious choice for you to move to this area. Why was that? Yeah. Well, I moved to this area. I come from more of a city metropolitan area on the East Coast. So I’m originally from Baltimore, Maryland. I grew up just outside of the city. I did live in the city for a little while. The pace of life, anybody knows that’s lived on a coast in the United States is much, much different than the Midwest and…

11:12 Traverse City is just, it’s so unique in that it has this four season area, you know, where you can get out any season. In Baltimore, there just wasn’t as much to do in the winter, although they don’t get as much snow, but still it’s cold. So there just wasn’t as much to do. And here you can get out any season. And I just felt that it would be a better quality of life for me after work right now, as you know, it doesn’t even get dark here until about 10 o’clock. So there’s just so much time for me to get out after work.

11:41 too and just take advantage of everything. So I moved here as somebody that loved stand-up paddle boarding, as a stand-up paddleboard athlete, and I just really enjoyed that and wanted to come out here and try something different. And I would say that I do love the quality of life here. It’s awesome. Yeah. Well Traverse City area is known for its water sports. We are surrounded by beautiful lakes. People love taking their boats out. Paddle boarding, stand-up paddle boarding.

12:10 Is that a big sport or is that something that’s pretty unique to this area? No, it’s growing. It’s growing. It’s really popular on the coast. So in the East and West Coast, it’s really popular and it’s becoming, it’s really popular here at Traverse City has some of the most incredible athletes. You guys, I came here thinking that I was this awesome paddle boarder and I was smoked by the people here. Like they are just so athletic. It’s very, it’s, it’s interesting and it’s really admirable.

12:40 But there is a Midwest Paddling here and it’s growing and there’s been a lot more competition and a lot of eyes on it now versus previously. So it’s going to be a really big thing, I think, and it’s a lot of fun. It’s a full body exercise and it’s great. Wow. Do you think that Traverse City itself is one of the best places then for your business? Because I know that there is.

13:06 a culture within Traverse City of people moving here to find better work-life balance? Yes, one of the elements of the holistic business framework is environment. And so for me, it was really important to grow this company in an environment that would help it thrive. And Traverse City is definitely that environment for us because they are…

13:33 Resources abound for one and Traverse City is just it has that appeal of in the summertime when I moved here I was so shocked that people were outside of the office They were outside and they thought I was crazy for scheduling a meeting on a Friday, you know It was just completely different Lifestyle and it’s very lax here in the summer and they want you to get outside and enjoy your life So I do feel that it

13:56 lends to that a lot. The other thing about Traverse City is that they are very community oriented and something that really blew me away was when I moved here, everybody was asking how they could help me succeed. And so some of the research that we’re going to be doing, you know, we really want to use Traverse City almost as a case study because we want to take this environment and share it with other cities and places to show them, hey, yeah, sure, you need to know who your competitors are, but you don’t have to be so competitive.

14:25 competitive that is driving your business. We really believe that this scarcity mindset drives a lot of businesses to burn out because they are just so worried that there’s not enough resources for everybody when in fact there is. And so that’s a big part of what we teach too. But Traverse City is just such a, it’s just this showcase for us. It’s just been dropped right in our lap that is great that we can show, hey, this does work. Look at Traverse City. I mean, they’re growing rapidly and everybody’s…

14:55 I’m happy here. I mean, everybody here smiles at you. I just I love it here so much for that. And I think it’s going to be a great place for us. Yes. Yeah, I agree. I think it’s I mean, there’s a huge support as well for people who are creative in the area, people who work remotely. So there’s a lot of opportunities here. Now, as a social media marketing expert, I thought might be interesting. You can say that.

15:23 You can, you can. I was seriously, you can. But I think my listeners might enjoy hearing a little bit about you, about how they can stand out with their social media outreach that maybe they wouldn’t have considered before. Okay, I love this question. This is so good. So something that we always talk about is you should be creating more than you’re consuming. And so what happens is

15:50 Are you familiar with the term doom scrolling? Are you familiar with that term? No, I’m not. Okay, so doom scrolling, probably some people are laughing as they’re listening to this right now, is when you get caught up, especially with TikTok. Oh my goodness. But you get caught up in just going and watching more and more and just scrolling through the feed to see what other people are posting. And it’s called doom scrolling because it makes you feel like doom. Like it just, you feel not great afterwards sometimes, right? So you might start.

16:20 comparing yourself, you might start thinking you’re not doing enough. You might start looking at the highlight reel of somebody’s life and feeling like, oh, they’re doing more than me. They’re better than me. I should be doing more. You beat yourself up. That’s the whole part of social media that we’re learning about now that people are talking about from a mental health aspect. And so when you get caught up in the doom scrolling, you get caught up in what everybody else is doing. You lose that kind of inner voice intuition as far as what you should be doing with your company or what

16:50 You should, or even just sharing your own story, it starts to sound like somebody else’s story. You don’t even mean for that to happen, but you’re just consuming so much content. And so what I tell people is create more than you consume. Have a purpose for going on your social media account, whether it’s to, you can get some inspiration, sure, but set a time limit or something like that so you’re not on there for hours. And then, you know, get on there to post and to interact with people and engage, and then get off.

17:20 So what will help you stand out more is sharing more of you and less of everybody else. And I think the best way to do that is to make sure you’re kind of connecting with yourself offline and not being inundated with everybody else’s opinions and what they’re doing. And that’s going to help you be true to you and share this clear story of what you have to offer. And it helps with the burnout of what to post because what happens is you start doom scrolling.

17:46 And then you start getting overwhelmed by what everybody else is sharing. And then you don’t know what to share because it’s probably not going to be good enough is, you know, what Mary Jo shared. And then you’re starting to feel just not confident at all in you. Then you get burnout. You don’t know what to share anymore. And so that create more than consume is going to help you, I think, fix a lot of those things and help you shine brighter and be happier and share more about you. Yeah, that’s really great. Um, I know that I definitely need to do a little bit more of the

18:16 just sharing everyday things and yeah, we can kind of get a little bit too focused on like, oh, I have this new offering or I have this new, you know, event. What kind of balance would you like to see in someone’s social media that would be kind of more what people want to see when they’re going through?

18:40 People want to, so they want to trust your brand, right? And the way that they even build that trust and that loyalty, and that’s what we want. I mean, that’s the gold standard is we want a loyal following for our brand, of course. But when we talk about trust and loyalty that is generally formed in my experience by sharing more about your personal life and allowing people to get to know you online like they would offline.

19:08 So I’m not talking about something deeply personal, like something that probably shouldn’t be shared like online or with the masses, but struggles you’ve gone through. Like I have spoken pretty openly about an autoimmune condition that I have, and I’ve spoken about that online, and people message me and they want to learn more about it, or they have it too, and that’s how we connect, and you start making these real online connections with people. So when it comes to a brand and what you’re sharing,

19:36 I mean, yeah, look, you have to share the sales piece of what you do because that is important. And somebody once said, and I thought this was so good, that if you’re not sharing what you have to offer with the world as far as your business, you’re doing the world a disservice because they might need what you’re offering. They might need to know what that is. So don’t ever feel like you’re being too salesy. But it’s in the storytelling. It’s in…

20:03 when you’re sharing what you do for a company, how are you going to help somebody? What is going to solve their problems? Why do you exist? Share the story behind your brand, and then you can share different points of your life about who you are. And I think a lot of people miss the story piece of sharing about who they are and why they even founded their company. That’s what people want to know. They want to know, why did you even do this? We call it your core purpose, the reason you exist beyond making money.

20:31 If I didn’t make a single cent with the more you grow, but I changed all of these people’s, these businesses’ lives, and they can now have this more fulfilled, healthy, happy life, and their business is going and going, that’s what I’m here for. That’s what I want to do, is share that mission. And so I would say more storytelling, more sharing about the purpose behind your business, and more connecting with people on that real level, I think is going to help you be successful online.

21:00 I love that. And I know that one of the things you do with your clients is you do focus in on that foundation level of what is the mission? What are the values? What is the vision? What is the purpose? And I know you mentioned this earlier, but a lot of people skip that part, right? They go straight to I have this thing, let me market it. Right, they do, you know, so, so a lot of people lump branding and marketing together. And when I was studying

21:30 In school, I came across a book called The Brand Gap and it’s by one of my favourite authors, Marty Neumeier. And he also led the certifications I took for branding when I went back to get those. And he says that branding is the gut feeling that you get when you think about a company. So I own a Jeep and I think that if I drive a Jeep, it means I’m adventurous because adventure is that gut feeling that I get.

21:57 So if I go around telling people like, hey, I have a Jeep and it makes me feel adventurous, that’s marketing. I’m telling about that gut feeling, right? You’re sharing what that feeling is with other people. But the actual feeling that you get, that is the actual brand. And so when we’re talking about branding, we’re building that foundational piece. We’re building that feeling and that encompasses things like your mission, your vision, and your values. And without that, it would be

22:26 be nearly impossible to market because what are you marketing if you don’t have a foundation? You wouldn’t build a house without a foundation because what are you building on? So those are the things that we try to teach people and I teach it at NMC too. First we need to do the branding. And so when you start there, you’re going to have a higher rate of success because you have that foundation and it’s just going to make your life so much easier even though it does take more time and it is very involved and you have to really think about it and you have to think it through.

22:56 And then you start getting into, of course, your ideal customer and who you’re trying to reach. And if you know your brand, it helps you figure that out. So yeah, it’s very important. Wow. Now earlier, we skimmed over this a little earlier, you mentioned how important intuition can be when we’re starting a business and when we’re connecting with those things. What is your relationship with intuition and how can you explain what that is? Cause not everybody has a connection to their intuition. No, you’re absolutely right. They don’t. And…

23:26 Oh, I love this question so much. I’m so glad you asked me because I don’t always get to talk about this. It’s something that’s really important. And so for me, my relationship with intuition, so I meditate twice a day, most days. And so in the morning it allows me, and we could do a whole podcast probably on what meditation is because a lot of people have different ideas of that or they’ll say they can’t because they can’t quiet their mind, but it’s really.

23:52 I can’t quiet my mind half the time either. I have ADHD. It’s something I’m also very open about. But the purpose for me is to be still, be unplugged, be disconnected, and be able to hear the answers that I have within to help me drive this business and drive my ideas. And it’s coming from me. It’s not coming from the 10,000 ads I see a day or from what the TV says it should be or what social media says it should be.

24:20 We all have these answers for what we should do in our lives intuitively But unfortunately we get nervous and scared and we start seeking the answers from outside sources friends family Well-meaning people that might not lead us in the direction we’re supposed to go and so for me Intuition is leaning into that inner voice and hearing what I have to offer the world and I do that through my meditation practice so it I could not

24:50 be successful without it. And it took me a very long time to learn that. And so it’s just, it’s the driving force behind this company for sure. That’s so interesting. Because I teach, I teach mantra meditation myself, you know, it’s using your voice and, you know, mantras from different spiritual traditions. But that’s just one type of meditation. And I know myself that it changed my life. And what it helped me to do was it helped me to trust those intuitive

25:19 like sparks of inspiration, because you could call intuition inspiration as well. So people might not absolutely gel with the word intuition, but sometimes you just get inspired to do something or you start to feel like, oh, and get it like a little bit like of a curiosity towards something that just makes you want to find out more. And it’s like, OK, I might take this thing up or I might decide to go here or do that. And so how do you help?

25:49 business owners to find that? I mean, some of them probably don’t even realize how important it can be. They, I agree, they probably don’t. I think meditation looks different for everybody and I’m sure you think the same. So my dad was a very successful entrepreneur and I grew up in this world, so that’s why I’m so passionate about it too. His form of meditation was, this is gonna sound funny, but it was mowing the lawn. Mowing the lawn.

26:16 was how he was able to shut down everything in his world. It was so loud that he could hardly hear his own thoughts. So he was able to tap into, he didn’t call it his intuition. He just called it being able to think through things, but it’s the same thing. And so his was mowing the lawn. For me, while I do this meditation practice, some other ways that I get my intuition and am able to hear myself is in the shower and through driving.

26:45 So what I will do is if I’m driving obviously I will pull over and write some notes down and they just come a lot You know at once sometimes or if I’m in the shower, you know when I get out I have a notepad in my bathroom that I write things down So what I would say is find step one find what helps you get a clear mind Like my dad would say, you know find what helps you think so is it walking around after work? Is it driving is it?

27:12 some kind of solitude for you. My mom would call it praying, right? It just depends on what resonates, resonates with you the most. And so that way, the other thing that you said that I found very interesting was about trusting your intuition. So what I want to say to people is that’s not easy always. So when I had this idea, like I said, it was several years ago and I didn’t trust that it…

27:38 It was such a big thing to me that it actually scared me. It overwhelmed me and I just thought, nope, I’m going to set this on the table for a while. And then I came back to it because I learned as I worked with my intuition, how to trust it a little bit more. So in the beginning, when you’re doing that, it’s really good to trust. I read this blurb the other day that said to keep an intuition journal. So you can write little things down where you have something that’s not high risk.

28:08 that you can practice trusting your intuition and think, well, you know, I thought that, you know, maybe I should buy this for lunch and then I did. And it made me feel really good. And that was trusting my intuition, right? Or I thought I should stop into the store for some strange reason today. And I met a new client. I’m just keep this list so that you can start really trusting yourself and seeing how that works. I mean, we could talk about manifestation and kind of making our lives happen for us, right? But I’m a big believer in that too. And

28:37 molding the world to what we want. So the biggest thing I think is for trusting your intuition and just realizing that you do have the answers. You don’t have to seek them outside, slowing down and pausing if you get stressed and overwhelmed and even for me sleeping on it and then coming back to it the next day. I love all of that. Sleeping on it is a great one. And but that I mean, I wrote down intuition journal, I was like, well, I thought my dream journal, like, I mean, not that I’m using all these all the time, but

29:05 Intuition is something that to me is just like, like you said, the inner voice that sometimes is very quiet and it’s just like a nudge. It’s like I’m kind of doing a elbow nudge here. But it kind of just nudges you and it gives you a choice that you didn’t see was there before. And then you can choose to follow it or not to follow it. And if it’s something small, like you get the intuition to go into a store, that’s where you practice it, I think.

29:35 And like I said, and I’ve never thought about, you know, actually making a note of that. But I have been reading and what read listening to an audio book. I never know whether to say listening or reading for an audio book. I always say reading an audio book. But I’m a fascinating podcaster herself, Rhonda Grant wrote a book about finding the magic within. And she talks about how she would make a note of all of these weird things that were happening and how somehow.

30:05 she would have this thought or she’d have a dream. And then three years later, something would happen. She’d be like, oh my God, this, that’s the dream. But we don’t take note. So therefore we don’t notice it. You know, we’re too distracted. And that’s just such a big part of everything too, is if you’re so busy, right, in your business that you barely have time to sleep or eat, you’re not going to be able to hear your inner voice because you’re going to be so.

30:30 distracted by everything going on in your life. There’s just no room for it to really pop up. So that’s another piece to it too, is just taking that time to hear it and it will help you be more successful. Taking a step back is so important. Well, there’s been so many gems. I was completely right about all your wisdom. Thank you. I think it’s amazing what we’ve spoken about. I’ve gotten so much from it myself.

30:59 And I’m so glad that that my my listeners are going to get and, you know, whoever ends up listening, I’m sure you all have gotten something from it today. Is there anything that you’d like to say before we start winding things up? I guess so for me, you know, and everything with the holistic business framework, every single piece of the framework is something that I have been through in a progression in my life. And so.

31:26 or my clients, of course, as well. But when I was building this business, it’s been a very full circle moment of growth for me. And the more you grow is about my growth journey as much as it is helping other businesses with their growth journey. And so it’s just been really cool to kind of build this and see what it has become by just letting go and.

31:53 The last thing I wanted to say was, I read this the other day, it said, if you don’t follow your intuition on an idea, it’s okay. Like it doesn’t mean something bad is going to happen, but the idea is there and somebody else is going to move forward with it. Because the idea, if it’s out there, if you’re thinking it, it is meant to be shared. And so if I didn’t start, the more you grow, I fully confidently believe that somebody else would have gone with this kind of idea and run with it.

32:21 And it’s just a message on, you know, competition and resources. It’s not really about competition. It’s about, you know, who’s going to move this idea forward. And I thought that was just so interesting when I read that if I don’t do it, somebody else will, and that would be okay, but I want to do it. So, you know, I just thought that was very interesting. Yeah.

32:43 That’s it’s like the muse when you think of, you know, people who are artists, they have like the muse and it kind of just offers you this thing. And then you can say yes or no. That reminds me of that book by Elizabeth Gilbert. Now, what is it called?

33:00 It’s got magic, big magic. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, Elizabeth Gilbert, she wrote that she wrote that book, ‘Eat Pray Love’ that was made into a movie with Julia Roberts. Love that. That whole concept. It just makes me want to go straight over and travel. I love travel. So, yes. And I think we can both agree that Traverse City is a great place to eat, pray and love because you’ve got everything. You’ve got great food here and great, great resources and lots of nature to go.

33:29 nature bathing. It’s been so enlightening and so useful, I think, everything that you’ve said today. Obviously, I wish you every success with the new business venture and I think you’re going to have an amazing impact. Thank you so much, Sarahbeth, and thank you everyone who’s been listening. We’ll see you again on the next episode of the Resonate Podcast. Bye-bye. Bye.

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